It occurred to me that a really handy way to preserve my interview for our paper on Immigration would be to post it in my blog. It's long, but there is some interesting stuff in here. Primarily, I've posted this so Ms. Andrews can reference it:
John Rinaldi
US History for International Students, Andrews
Oral History Research Project (Immigration)
November 5, 2014
Interview
Questions
Interview Subject: Theodorus Albertus Krijn Mossel
Age: 41
Occupation: Software Solutions Architect
Thank you for agreeing to take part in this oral
history research paper for my US History class. Please answer the questions in writing,
in as much detail as you can.
1.
Where and when were you born?
I was born in a hospital in Amsterdam, The
Netherlands, on February 18, 1973.
2. Tell
me about your hometown. Where is it located? Is it large or small? Is it
provincial or cosmopolitan? What is the nearest big city, and how far away is
it?
I
grew up in Volendam, which is about 15 miles north of Amsterdam. When I was
born, it had about 12,000 inhabitants, and around 20,000 now. Even though it’s
relatively close to Amsterdam, the people’s mindset is very provincial. This is
due to two factors:
-
Since The Netherlands is such a small country, distances
tend to weigh heavier.
-
The town is the only Catholic community in an overwhelmingly
Protestant area. The impact of that is not as heavy as it used to be, but it
has led to the town being fairly isolated in past generations.
The
provincial mindset is reflected in many aspects: the town has a unique dialect,
a very distinctive costume (which was worn every single day in my grandparents’
generation, and only on special occasions now), and almost no one moves away
from the town.
3. Where
and when were your parents born?
My
father was born on July 7, 1935, and my mother on March 20, 1937. Both were
born in Volendam.
4. Do
your parents still live in your hometown?
Yes,
they do.
5. Where
and when were your grandparents born?
My
mother’s parents were both born in Volendam. My father’s birth mother was also
born in Volendam. His biological father is unknown. He was raised by his birth
mother’s aunt and uncle, who were also born in Volendam.
6. Did
your grandparents always live in your hometown?
Yes,
they did (the ones that we know about).
7. How
many aunts, uncles and cousins do you have (approximately)? Do they all still
live in your hometown, or if they have passed away, did they live in your
hometown all their lives?
My
father was an only child, but my mother had 4 sisters and 6 brothers. 3 sisters
and 5 brothers reached adulthood; 2 sisters and 3 brothers are still alive.
They all lived or have lived in Volendam their entire lives.
I
have 20 first cousins (children of my aunts and uncles), 19 of which are still
alive. They all lived or have lived in Volendam their entire lives.
8. Did
your parents or any other relatives go to University?
None
of my parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, or first cousins (children of aunts
and uncles) went to university. Some of the children of my first cousins have
gone or are going, though.
9. When
you decided to attend university in Amsterdam, what was your parents’ reaction?
And your friends? Were they supportive?
My
parents always wanted me to go to university, since they never had the chance.
Some of my hometown friends also went to university, so they were supportive as
well.
10. Were
you a commuter student, or did you live at school?
I
was a commuter student.
11. What
attitudes have you observed in your hometown about whether or not college is
useful? Would you say that students in your town are encouraged to attend
college, or is it more socially acceptable to go right to work and start making
money?
I
would say that on the one hand, the increased salary that comes with a college
education is regarded positively, but on the other hand, outside ideas such as
science are regarding warily, and starting to earn money as early as possible
is definitely regarded as a virtue. My parents were somewhat unusual in that
they came down firmly in favor of university.
One
anecdote comes to mind: I was visiting one of my older cousins (a daughter of
my mother’s brother), who had a daughter of her own who was nearing college
age. My cousin was telling me that her daughter wanted to go to college very
much, when her husband interjected “I don’t see the point of paying for her
college. She’s just going to get married and never use the education after
that.” This is indicative of the very traditional view of gender roles in
Volendam. The girl did end up going to college; my cousin overruled her
husband.
These
attitudes are slowly changing, though. The youngest generation of adults is
much more outwardly oriented, and some are even moving away.
12. What
is the perception of your hometown in the larger cities in your country? Do you
think it is seen as a hick town? A
snobby suburb? Some other way?
Yes,
Volendam is definitely seen as a hick town. The dialect and old-fashioned
tastes of Volendammers are regularly made fun of on TV. Volendam has a
long-standing tradition of producing popular musicians, leading to a lot of
exposure of the town in Dutch popular culture.
13. What
are the factors that make your hometown different from the rest of the
Netherlands? Please speak to differences in language/dialect, religion, social
mores, etc.
Volendam
started as a ghetto of sorts of the city of Edam. The original community was
very working-class, poor, and Catholic. The Northern half of the Netherlands is
mostly Protestant, so this led to Volendam being quite isolated for several
centuries, both being ignored by outsiders, as well as its inhabitants being
almost exclusively inwardly focused.
Consequently,
the inhabitants developed their own dialect, costume, and culture. The culture
has some elements in common with other traditional European cultures, such as
strictly defined gender roles, different social circles for the genders, gossiping,
and rejection of non-conformists. Some more unique elements are: cleanliness
and industriousness are very highly valued, but the heavy use of alcohol is
accepted, even at an early age.
Another
consequence of the isolation is inbreeding. This was a significant problem even
in the generation of my parents. I count myself lucky that my paternal
grandmother had “loose morals”, and got pregnant out of wedlock (in 1935!), by
an outsider, thus refreshing my genetic heritage. There are only a limited
number of last names in the village, as well as a strong tradition of naming
children after relations. This leads to many people having identical or very
similar names (two of my uncles have the exact same names, first and last).
Volendam has developed an intricate system of inheritable ‘nicknames’, which
are used to distinguish between various branches of a family.
14. How
would you describe your hometown in terms of ethnic and cultural diversity? Are
the people there tolerant of those who are seen as different?
The
town is still very homogeneous, both ethnically as well as cultural. There are
practically no non-Caucasians that live there. Some people have moved there from
outside, though. I have heard of several of these “imported” people, that they
never have felt completely accepted, even after having lived there for decades
and having been married to a local.
There
is not much tolerance of those who are seen as different, although I’ve never
had any negative reactions from people in my cohort when I came out as gay. I
actually received more criticism for moving away than for being gay.
On
the third hand, I think if I’d been more effeminate or transgendered, I would have
faced more difficulty. I “fit in” fairly well, and can “pass” if I need to.
15. What
got you thinking about moving away from your hometown?
Being
gay and being a nerdy only child gave me a natural outsider perspective,
leading to a lot of thinking about other potential communities where I might
fit in better. After starting college, I made friends who shared my
intellectual interests (both at college, and in my hometown), and I felt more
part of a community. That removed the immediate need to move away, which was
also reaffirmed by my parents, who were very much against my moving to
Amsterdam (where my college was). In Volendam, people rarely move away from
home before getting married in their mid-twenties.
16. When
did you first consider the idea of moving to another country?
I
was active on the Internet from 1991 onwards, and became aware of communities
that existed outside of the Netherlands that felt very attractive to me. Such
as the science-fiction and fantasy fandoms, computer science nerds, and the gay
“bear” subculture. Then, in my first job after college, I had the opportunity
to travel a lot to both the UK and the US, and seeing first-hand what they were
like. In addition, I always felt more attracted to popular culture from the UK
and US (music, movies, TV), than those homegrown in The Netherlands.
17. Of
your high school/college friends, did any others move away from your hometown,
or away from the Netherlands? Where did they move?
Of
my high school friends, only one moved “away”, as in to the next town over. Of
my college friends, there were quite a few that moved away from the country,
including one who moved to Singapore by way of Vietnam, and one who moved to
the San Francisco Bay Area.
18. Were
there factors that made you uncomfortable staying in your hometown, or staying
in the Netherlands?
Yes,
being openly gay in my hometown in my generation would have meant being “the
only gay in the village”. I wouldn’t necessarily have been outcast, but I would
have gotten a lot of attention, wanted or not.
As
to the country at large, I never felt comfortable with the paradoxical
Calvinism in Dutch culture. Dutch people like to think of themselves as very
tolerant, but there is considerable social pressure to conform to certain
roles. For example, you can be gay and you can use drugs recreationally. But
“ostentation” in many forms is frowned upon. For example, showing your wealth
is definitely a faux pas, even if you earned it yourself. Also, enjoying food
too much is a no-no. Especially in the gay community, there is pressure to be
very thin.
19. Did
you ever consider moving to any other countries besides the United States?
Yes,
if the opportunity had presented itself, I wouldn’t have minded living in the
UK.
20. What
was it about the US in particular that attracted you?
The
subcultures I mentioned earlier, and especially the culture of technological
development, were attractive to me. Also, individual achievement is celebrated
and stimulated, and you are allowed to enjoy the fruits of your work.
21. Why
did you choose to settle in the San Francisco Bay Area?
It
has a very active and large gay community as well as Silicon Valley. Also, the
company that offered me a job was located there.
22. Did
you come to the US legally? If so, what kind of Visa did you have?
Yes,
I had an H1-B visa, allowing me to change employers, but with a limited
validity.
23. Was
it hard to obtain that visa?
No,
it was arranged by the Dutch company that hired me to work in its San Jose
office.
24. Did
it cost you a lot of money to move?
All
my legal costs for the visa were paid by the company, but I paid for the
travel, and the furnishing of my apartment. I certainly paid less than someone
who moves of their own accord.
25. When
you moved to the US, did you already have a job?
Yes,
I was hired before moving.
26. When
you moved to the US, did you already speak English?
Yes,
I did.
27. When
you moved to the US, what level of education had you completed?
I
got my Master’s Degree in Computer Science in 1997, and moved to the US in
2009.
28. Did
you see your move as being permanent or temporary? If temporary, how long did
you originally plan to stay in the US?
My
original plan was to stay temporarily, based on the H1-B validity timeframe (3
years, extendable to 6), although I liked living in the US so much that I
started dreaming of making it permanent. All of that changed, of course, when I
met my lovely spouse.
29. How
long have you lived in the US?
I
have lived in the US for 5 years and 2 months.
30. Once
you got to the US, how did it compare with your expectations? Describe your
feelings and impressions (positive and negative) during your first year in the
US.
I
had traveled many times to the US before moving, so I was familiar with the
culture. I was worried about making friends and re-building my social web, but
that proved to be very easy, much easier than in The Netherlands. This may be
more because I live in the Bay Area than because of living in the US.
One
negative experience I had in my first year was when I fell afoul of a manager
at the company to which I was contracted. I did not appear to be busy enough,
in his view. I felt as if it mostly a matter of my demeanor being too relaxed,
not culturally appropriate. I was asked to leave that project, but fortunately
didn’t lose my job.
31. Describe
your feelings when the US Supreme Court struck down Proposition 8, so that you
were able to marry your partner.
“Elation”
covers it pretty well, I’d say. We already had a very committed relationship,
but having it legitimized makes me feel much more part of the community. Not to
mention that it opened the door to acquiring permanent residence in the US.
32. What
are the attitudes/laws around gay marriage in your country? In your home town?
Gay
marriage in The Netherlands became legal in 2001, and was not very
controversial. There was some resistance from the ultra-religious, but the
population at large supported it. My impression is that in my hometown a
married gay person is more easily accepted than a single one, perhaps because
people feel less threatened in their own sexuality. A married couple is also
simply more respectable, and it fits better with the life stages of the other
inhabitants.
33. Is
there anything else you’d like to tell me about why you chose to move? How has
your view of the US changed since you have lived here?
When I decided to move, I was at a
point in my life where I didn’t have a lot of ties; my first long-term
relationship had ended two years earlier, and a troubled period dating someone
had just ended. So when the offer came, I was ready to try something new.
I’ve
learned many things about the US that I didn’t know before moving here. One is
the sheer diversity of the country. There are huge cultural differences based both
on geographical region, but also on subculture. This is partly a function of
scale, but I also feel that it is much easier to “be yourself” in the US, it’s
easier to find a subculture in which you fit, and the culture is more
individualistic, and therefore there is less social pressure to conform.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and impressions
with me!
Sincerely,
John Rinaldi
